The Year in Duh-Bunking: February

Pat Curley of the Screw Loose Change blog writes:

The Year in Troof: February Follies

Gage's Gaggle held their 1000th signer press conference and celebration. Steven Jones chose this opportunity to speculate that perhaps the New World Order had caused the Haiti earthquake.

Sibel Edmonds became a 9-11 Truther.

Debra Medina, a Republican candidate for Texas Governor who was registering real support in the polls, crashed and burned when she claimed that there were lots of legitimate questions about controlled demolition at the WTC on the Glenn Beck show.

Don Meserlian, the swimming pool engineer, got slapped down in local court for threatening to beat up the local cops because they weren't interested in his rants about misprision of treason.

His first point led to a debate between he and Scootle where Pat demonstrated his complete misunderstanding of the nano-thermite paper.

As to his second point, FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds didn't become a truther then, but Pat did just learn about it from me. Pat used anonymous FBI officials instead of the preponderance of evidence concerning her credibility and a mistranslation of her words to make it seem as if she had inadvertently exposed herself as a liar.

When it comes to Debra Medina, Pat is only giving half the story. Yes, a local Texas ABC affiliate did report that Tuesday February 23rd poll numbers showed Debra Medina jumping from nine percent of Texas Republicans having an unfavorable opinion of her to 30 percent. However, after Medina's initial statements Texans still seemed to be backing her and Glenn Beck lost 500,000 viewers. However, after she flip-flopped on the 9/11 issue on February 18th she lost many of her largest supporters. As one commenter stated upon hearing audio where Medina agrees that "the belief that America would do this to its own people" is "despicable":

I wanted to vomit when I heard her say this.

Apparently, to want the truth has become "despicable". All the 911 victims family members that want the truth and have questions, are now "despicable".

The legendary Texas film maker/radio show host/activist Alex Jones, has just pulled his support for Medina based on her "despicable" interview with the neo filth operative. This was a death blow for her. His Infowars.com "infowarriors" were the core of her base support. Now, we're gone.

And people close to Medina's campaign were concerned about it, writing in emails that:

No where does Debra say "truthers are despicable people"... We are THIS close to beating the establishment. We have to keep up the pressure, dig in, work hard and we can win this election... Are we going to let this stop us? I have placed my faith in the ability of Debra Medina to lead us in this fight, and I will stand by her and fight for our rights with her. I will not cave because the opposition is trying to divide and conquer.

Regardless of which of Medina's 9/11 comments had more of an effect on her campaign, the fact remains that 9/11 truth remained "a mainstream political reality" in 2010.

As to Meserlian, I don't agree with the seismic and basement bombs evidence he presents. And I don't condone his actions towards the police. But as was pointed out in the link Pat provided, "Meserlian admitted he can be annoying, but that’s only because he’s trying to get the truth out." Pat has pointed out, "Meserlian was forced to surrender his engineering license by the State of New Jersey because he wasn't using a licensed surveyor in his work." However, Meserlian did write up a defense of his New Jersey professional engineer's license, which he held "for more than 30 years." To achieve a P.E. licence Imagineering E-zine notes that one must pass several exams:

The first exam, Fundamentals of Engineering, covers mathematics, chemistry, physics, and engineering sciences. The second exam, Principles and Practice of Engineering, requires the applicant to solve engineering problems in his discipline plus problems in four other disciplines. The difficulty of these tests have been equated to passing ten final exams on the same day. The data covered on the tests requires the applicant to draw upon knowledge that has been accumulated over an entire college and professional career.

So when Pat calls Meserlian simply a "swimming pool engineer" he is misrepresenting his credentials, just as he does when he calls Kevin Ryan, who has a B.S. in chemistry from Indiana University, a waterboy because he worked as a chemistry lab manager at a premier water-testing laboratory.

So what we have here is, misunderstanding, mistranslation, and misrepresentation, otherwise known as duh-bunking!

Related Info:

9/11 Truth Movement: Year in Review (2009-2010)

The Year in Duh-Bunking: January

The Year in Duh-Bunking: March

Scum of the Earth 9/11 Twoofers Vs the Sweetest Smelling Government That Ever Existed

By: John-Michael P. Talboo and AdamS

Welcome to Need To Know, with your host, me, Moe King-Bird.

It's over eight years since the 9/11 attacks, but still there are a lot of people who say they have unanswered questions about what really happened that day. They tread a fine line - what is just harmless curiosity, and what is mocking the terrorist murder of 3000 Americans? To discuss this we are joined by Judas Goat of Citizens Against Questioning 9/11, caq911.blogspot.com, a grassroots organisation known for its simple message: Support our Government.

So, the study that the '9/11 truthers' say proves there was a conspiracy by our own government to carry out the 9/11 attacks, which was published in a scientific journal, claims to have found thermite amongst the wreckage of the World Trade Center. Is this credible to you?

Judas Goat:

Nothing done by these Jihadist supporters is credible. They actually purport to have found a make believe explosive variant of the incendiary that they call super-duper-uber-magico-nano-thermite. They say that if we are going to debunk their peer-reviewed paper (and this part cracks me up) that we have to do it with a peer-reviewed paper of our own! They claim that science has proceeded through peer-reviewed papers since the time of Sir Isaac Newton. But if this were true then why was the official government investigation conducted by the esteemed National Institute for Standards and Technology not peer-reviewed?! Troothers.

Moe King-Bird:

Now something I find when I am listening to what 9/11 truthers have to say, is they are not very consistent. They disagree and fight amongst themselves over whether there were planes, some even say the towers were brought down using, and I am not joking here, 'space lasers'. Is this something that is simply to be expected when dealing with conspiracy theorists?

Judas Goat:

Indeed, they have not formulated a coherent theory in the least. Whereas, the official account of the 9/11 attack has remained consistent. Now some of these people argue that things like "space lazers" and and "cartoon planes" are Trojan Horses, but horses aren't the problem here; birds of a feather that flock together are. In other words, they are all nuts. Twoofers.

Moe King-Bird:

I would also like your thoughts on the reasons 9/11 'skepticism' is quite widespread. Because with most theories like this, i.e., Elvis still being alive, their appeal is only to a fringe minority. But many people may have questions about 9/11, in fact a sound majority of people in numerous polls have said they feel the government has not told the full truth about the attacks. Countless '9/11 truth' books, films, and other items have been marketed, aimed at these people. Is there a danger here of some people simply spreading hype for selfish reasons?

Judas Goat:

Let's see here... (thumbing through the debunker's handbook) Ah! Here we are... People like conspiracy theories because they make sense out of an otherwise messy and coincidence filled world.

I must contest that the 9/11 conspiracy theory is a more popular theory than Elvis being alive. When Rep. Mike Thompson (Dem CA-1) was asked whether he thought 9/11 might be an inside job he informed the nutbar asking the question that “70% of the country thinks that Elvis is still alive.” I'm sure he did exhaustive research on this percentage.

And yes, these people are obviously doing this for selfish reasons. Conspiracy theory is an industry. The conspiracists argue that the distribution of their material on the internet for free largely exceeds their sales as a means to getting people brainwashed into believing their ideas. Clever marketing indeed. Bottom line is, if any money is made from this stuff it automatically disproves their theories. Troofers.

Moe King-Bird:

What was the cause of the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings? Because, and maybe it's just me, I saw huge planes hit those buildings. Are my eyes deceiving me? And, have the government reports provided enough proof to put the controversy to rest?

Judas Goat:

Your eyes did not deceive you and yes they have. Some of the nutters point out that WTC Building 7 also collapsed that day, but wasn't hit by a plane. However the government also explained this in August of 2008; their report states:

The collapse of WTC7 can be explained thanks to a recently discovered physical property of the universe that causes fire to intelligently seek out and destroy the one vital column that stops a building from imploding in on itself at the rate of gravity.

They like to say "Ask Questions, Demand Answers," but then they never accept the answers. Toofers.

Moe King-Bird:

Thank you for joining us, that's what we need to know.

9/11 Truthers or Twoofers? You Decide...

By: FaithMichaels and John-Michael P. Talboo

Ever since people started questioning the facts about 9/11 they have encountered huge resistance from others. It is almost like people do not want to know the truth. It is like they are angry at us for not just swallowing down the official story and going along. They seem to be very upset that we dared to say "wait a minute" the story you are telling me does not match the evidence on the scene, or their own recorded facts of the incident. The official explanation does not add up when one starts looking at scientific and historical facts. The official government 9/11 committee's "facts" do not match a vast number of experts in the field; experts like architects, engineers, firefighters, and people who do demolition for a living. The 9/11 truthers have been insulted with repeated ad hominem attacks, told to go and take our medications, verbally threatened, called conspiracy nuts, kooks, etc. and cussed at.

Recently, Debunking the Debunkers blog contributor Stewart Bradley compiled various videos made by "debunkers" in an attempt to showcase their lack of lack of eloquence, venomous nature, and dependence on a priori objections and fallacious arguments. Sadly, and hilariously, they didn't get it. Upon finding and reposting Stewart's video, Pat Curley, of the "debunking" blog Screw Loose Change, commented that, "The best part is that the guy who put it together is a Troofer!" Of course "troofer," or "twoofer" is a derogatory term akin to calling someone a conspiracy nut, so right off the bat, Pat had proven Stewart's point! Instead of denouncing the people in the video for their lack of intelligent discourse, or proclaiming them to be the lowest common denominator of the "debunking" world, they were instead proud. The calls in the video for people to "put a bullet to their head" and "just kill yourself please" were not even decried. No, these people were apparently considered brethren of the highest order.

Surely Pat did not think it was funny when British man Kevin Whitrick hung himself live on the internet with 100 chatroom users watching, with one commenting “Fucking do it. Get on with it.” Who is to say some disturbed person doesn't take the advice offered in the "debunking" video? Granted, these are very different scenarios, but telling people that they should kill themselves isn't funny, or admirable, period.

After being shown that his video had been posted on the Screw Loose Change blog Stewart noted that, "They don't even get that the video is mocking them! One guy even posted that I don't understand irony. Don't that beat all!"

None of this is to say that members of the 9/11 truth movement, or this blog, always conduct themselves in the most saintly of ways. However, there is a difference between the proverbial straw that broke the camels back, and having one's modus operandi consist of flinging around insults. To put it another way, how many hundreds of "troofers" equals one "fuck you"?

After all, we are all conspiracy theorists when it comes to this issue, this fact is solidly demonstrated in the introduction to Professor David Ray Griffin's book, "Debunking 9/11 Debunking", in an essay entitled, Conspiracy Theories, General, Rational, and Irrational. It is pointed out for instance that when Matthew Rothschild, the editor of The Progressive, began his essay Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracies, Already by stating:

"Here's what the conspiracists believe: 9/11 was an inside job. Members of the Bush Administration ordered it, not

Osama bin Laden. Arab hijackers may not have done the deed... [T]he Twin Towers fell not because of the impact of the planes and the ensuing fires but because [of] explosives.... I'm amazed at how many people give credence to these theories."

He did not have a paragraph saying:

Here's what the government's conspiracists believe: 19 hijackers with box-cutters defeated the most sophisticated defense system in history. Hani Hanjour who could barely fly a Piper Cub, flew an astounding trajectory to crash Flight 77 into the Pentagon, the most well-protected building on earth. Other hijacker pilots, by flying planes into two buildings of the World Trade Center, caused three of them to collapse straight down, totally, and at virtually free-fall speed.... I'm amazed at how many people give credence to these theories."

We have been told that the "burden of proof" is on our side. Yet no matter how many testimonies we provide, no matter how much evidence we collect, no matter how many documentaries are made showing that people in power KNEW months and even years before , or how many "smoking guns" are collected, compiled and presented , 9/11 Truthers are still told " it is not enough evidence." OK, then how much evidence do we need and what kind of evidence would matter? There is more than enough evidence to raise reasonable doubt here already. People have been arrested and thrown in jail on far less facts than these. Guantanamo Bay was full of people who were arrested, kept in prison and tortured on way less evidence than what has been collected from 9/11 families and truthers. Murder cases have been thrown out of court and known rapists have walked free, on way less reasonable doubt evidence than what 9/11 truthers have put together. People have been convicted and sentenced to death and executed on way less evidence than the 9/11 truthers have collected. So again we ask: how much evidence will be enough to open a new 9/11 investigation? The people who verbally attack us, harass us, stalk us through-out the internet, will not tell us the answer to that question. It seems that all they have as an answer is to name call and try to cast doubt as to our sanity. What they are trying to do is cast doubt as to our credibility. Indeed that seems to be ALL they have to work with.

The people who question our sanity, our patriotism, etc. are the ones foaming at the mouth, spitting in your face, getting in your face, pointing fingers, using foul language, name calling, character assassinating and trying to push a person beyond any normal human tolerance level with actions and language that would test and sorely try the patience of even Mother Teresa.

These people behave like cyber bullies. They come to our blog site, YouTube channel, read?, and leave childish and foul profane insults. They behave in a complete out of control manner and appear to be people with deep anger issues. They speak as if they have no morals, no ethics, no home training, no compassion, and seem unable to have an intelligent fact-filled debate, or leave a sane comment.

All we have ever said is that there is enough evidence that counters the official story to open a new 9/11 investigation. One would have thought that we had asked for something sociably reprehensible and unforgivable.

These cyber bullies crawled out from under whatever cyber rock they were hiding and commenced to demonize, harass, and internet stalk anyone who dared to question our government's official party line.

They have been soooo dedicated to this demonizing, that one can't help but to wonder about THEIR sanity. Or to wonder; who are these people and if they are a tool of the government propaganda machine? They can't be "normal people" "normal people" do not behave this way, do they? Is this what happens to everybody who dares to question?

Look back in history; how many times have people been rejected and tormented by the "public perception of the world of the times" and official government ideology of the times"? Many of these people are well known. The name list includes; Einstein, Newton, Galileo, Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc.

Were our Founding Fathers called kooks, insane, etc. by the people of their times? What say you Mark Twain?

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

History has proven the above named people correct, and we believe that history will also prove the 9/11 truthers to be correct as well. We believe that it will show the 9/11 truthers to be true patriots, who helped to keep the Founding Fathers dream of this Republic and the people's dream of freedom and liberty alive and well for our children's children to enjoy.

History will show the governmental propaganda, party-line, fanatics to be just that, fanatics and spin-doctor propaganda people, that attempted to hide and distort the truth.

If you care about this country, if you just want to shut us truthers up, then give us a new investigation into 9/11. Of course Pat Curley of the ScrewLooseChange blog doesn't think it will result in us calling it a day, as he states, "the problem with the 'we just want a new investigation' people" is that, "Any new investigation will come to virtually the same conclusions as the original investigations, and the Troofers will yell "coverup" again. There may be some minor changes; a new investigation might come down a little harder on Bush and Tenet, but of course that will not be enough to satisfy 99% of the movement."

However, if we were to have a new investigation into 9/11 and the Bush administration by a panel of independent, non-government appointed experts, as opposed to the Bush administration investigating itself, we are positive his figure of 99% is a farce.

After all, the investigation was compromised with Executive Director Philip Zelikow having "deep, lasting ties to several members of both the Bush I and Bush II administrations." Not to mention the fact that he had co-authored a book with Condoleeza Rice, was a part of the Bush II transition team, participated in White House briefings on al-Qaeda in 2000 and 2001, and sat on Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.

According to an unnamed source on the Commission Zelikow was "calling the shots" and "skewing the investigation and running it his own way." If these are not the epitome of a conflict of interest, then we are truly living in a comic book bizzaro world.

Even one of the first commission members, Max Cleland, resigned and called the investigation a "white wash."

We believe the only reason the government would not support and help institute a new independent investigation, is that they fear there is a strong possibility that the truthers have a lot of things correct regarding the happenings on 9/11.

If you are new to this please research both sides of this matter for yourself. If it is more research than you want to do/or is overwhelming and TMI, consider this: If the governments official explanation of 9/11 is the "truth" then the Bush administration at best is guilty of gross negligence; at worst it is guilty of treason and war-crimes. Perhaps it was Bush and his administration, or a rogue element within our government that needs to be exposed and rendered incapable of enabling and enacting these human atrocities ever again, perhaps none of the above, but we need a new 9/11 investigation to find out.

Pat can rest assured that we are not as concerned about being right as he thinks we are however, as the semi-serious book "The A-Z of Conspiracy Theories by Kate Tuckett" points out:

Of course, one can argue that obsession with conspiracy theories serves only to demonstrate the lunatic paranoia running rife in the twentieth century. Much talk about conspiracies is dismissed as paranoia and much of it is paranoia. But in reality, history has proved all too well that politicians lie, presidents lie and bureaucrats lie. Almost everyone lies to a degree. If we continue to be gullible and believe everything that is presented to us, the truth never comes out. It becomes not only interesting and revealing but an absolute priority to question authority and question the authoritarians.

Related Info:

Truther.org

Meet The Truthers

Truther Long Before It Was Cool

Give us a new Independent Investigation