My name is Bob McIlvaine. My son, Bobby, was murdered on 9/11 along with nearly 3,000 other innocent people.
I am writing you today as a member of NYC CAN and friend of
AE911Truth to ask for your support of the High-Rise Safety Initiative -
a ballot initiative we are sponsoring that will require the City of New
York to launch a new investigation into the destruction of WTC 7.
To put this measure on the ballot, we need to gather 110,000
signatures, and to fund our petition drive we must raise $250,000 by June 1st.
This strategy is not guaranteed to succeed, but it is promising,
and one we must try.
Our petition drive can only go forward if 3,000 people come
together to support the campaign. So far nearly 500 people have donated.
Pat Curley of the Screw Loose Change blog posted a response to an article by 9/11 activist Jon Gold yesterday. Pat quotes the following from Gold which he says is intended to shame him:
Would you admit you were wrong? Would you apologize to all of the families you have disrespected? Would you apologize to all of the first responders you have disrespected? Would you apologize to all of the sincere members of the 9/11 Truth Movement you have slandered, harassed, and/or threatened? Either by directly taking part in these acts, or by promoting them? Would you apologize to the 9/11 Truth Movement for trying to paint us all as crazies by focusing on the fringiest of the fringe?
Gold sums up Pat's response in a comment:
So Pat basically did what I said he does, and he also showed how dishonest he is. He focused "on the fringiest of the fringe," and tried "to paint us all as crazies." I never promoted half of what he said, and in every instance of what he said, I made a comment of disapproval long before he ever wrote this piece. He showed how dishonest he is by claiming that Patty Casazza and Bob McIlvaine are considered "fringe." First of all, they both lost someone that day. They're family members, not fringe. Secondly, both of them attended every 9/11 Commission Hearing, and Patty was partly responsible for its creation, as well as working with the staffers, and providing 100's of well researched questions for them to answer. She is anything but "fringe," and her story is about a whistleblower. One of MANY the 9/11 Commission ignored or censored.
Although Pat asserts that truthers are the ones who have disrespected family members and first responders he ridicules many of them with his browbeating of anyone who fail to believe incompetence can adequately explain away red flag 9/11 issues such as foreknowledge of the attacks. Accordingly, those that disagree with Pat, people who have considered some level of conspiracy, reside in "conspiracy cuckoo land" and believe in something "every bit as crazy as TV fakery and voice-morphing." For Pat there is no middle ground, you either fully accept that 9/11 occurred due to mistakes and incompetence, a postulate that is not supported by evidence, or you are a nutter.
Let's look further into this outrageous claim: Whom could she have meant by "the government?"
David Schippers, former Chief Investigative Counsel for the US House Judiciary Committee and head prosecutor responsible for conducting the impeachment against former president Bill Clinton, stated that at the behest of several FBI agents he had attempted multiple times to warn US Attorney John Ashcroft, along with other federal officials, of the impending attacks weeks before they occurred, only to be stalled and rebuffed in each attempt.
The FBI command, however, cut short their investigations threatening the agents with prosecution under the National Security Act if they publicized this information.
Ahmed has stated, "In The War on Freedom, I merely laid out facts and lines of inquiry for an official investigation. The book was the first read by the Jersey Girls, informing their work with the 9/11 Family Steering Committee, and is part of the 9/11 Commission Collection at the US National Archives (a collection of 99 books, copies of which were provided to each Commissioner)."
Despite this fact, the account of David Shippers is nowhere to be found in The 9/11 Commission Report.
FBI translator Sibel Edmonds, in an open letter to the 9/11 Commission, reported that there was "specific information regarding a terrorist attack being planned by Osama bin Laden," that mentioned major cities, airplanes, approximate timeframe, and operatives already in place in the US. This was reported by FBI agents to Special Agent in Charge of Counterterrorism Thomas Frields at the FBI Washington Field Office, but was subsequently ignored.
Back to the topic of disrespect, it is clear that Pat is feigning ignorance of the disrespect on his side of the debate. I don't think it gets anymore disrespectful than Troy Sexton telling Bob McIlvaine to put a bullet in his head. Did Troy making the first comment on your response to Gold where he said "Fuck Bob McIlvaine" not jog your memory on that one, Pat?
I know you decried this kind of tripe from Troy, but you know damn well this is the type of thing Gold was talking about and yet you divert the attention on members of the truth movement.
When Debunking the Debunkers blog contributor Stewart Bradley compiled various videos made by "debunkers" in an attempt to showcase their lack of eloquence, venomous nature, dependence on a priori objections and employment of other fallacious arguments, you hilariously didn't get it, stating that, "The best part is that the guy who put it together is a Troofer!" Of course "troofer," or "twoofer" is a derogatory term akin to calling someone a conspiracy nut, so right off the bat you had proven Stewart's point! But most importantly this was over a month after you had proclaimed that you didn't support Troy's calls for truthers to commit suicide, but yet the calls in the video for people to "put a bullet to their head" and "just kill yourself please" were not denounced. Instead, these people were apparently considered brethren of the highest order.
After being shown that his video had been posted on the Screw Loose Change blog Bradley noted that, "They don't even get that the video is mocking them! One guy even posted that I don't understand irony. Don't that beat all!"
So don't get all uppity about Jason Bermas supposedly taking back an apology for saying that the firefighters were paid off because, even if you are right, you are no better. That being said, it looks to me that he was clarifying in both instances that he didn't think they were paid off as in being involved, but rather some could not take legal action after accepting the victims' compensation fund. I don't think this is accurate because it doesn't seem to me that it would apply to them unless they lost a family member, but the bottom line is I think his apology and latter statement are consistent in that he was making clear that he did not think the firefighters were involved in the plot. And don't you think it would be pertinent to mention that Dylan Avery has also apologized for the statement you quoted him on and that you said you would "move on" from talking about it? Troy most obviously has not apologized and I see no clarion call that he does.
None of this is to say that members of the 9/11 truth movement, or this blog, always conduct themselves in the most saintly of ways, but for anything we are guilty of you are guilty of at least tenfold.
Pat states, "It's the usual bit of nuttery; the program leads in with a lie: 'How many buildings collapsed on 9-11 Mom? Three.' Well, three if you don't count WTC-3. And St. Nick's."
Pat states, "Tony Szamboti chips in (breathlessly--the guy sounds like he's just finished the mile run) to tell us fire can't melt steel. Oh, except for in a few cases. Left unsaid, of course, by this engineer is that fire doesn't have to melt steel for the metal to lose its load-bearing capacity.
Pat Curley of the Screw Loose Change blog says, (to 9/11 activist Jeff Hill) "Here's a clue for Jeff: Molten metal does not equal molten steel."
Here's a clue for Pat: This does equal molten steel, "In what The New York Times dubbed as 'perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation,' Appendix C of the WTC Building Performance Study documented 'intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.'"
Appendix C states, "The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified."
As 911research.wtc7.net points out, "The 'deep mystery' of the melted steel may be yielding its secrets to investigators not beholden to the federal government. Professor Steven Jones has pointed out that the severe corrosion, intergranular melting, and abundance of sulfur are consistent with the theory of thermite arson."
Pat adds in an update, "Some particularly moronic Truthers want to talk about the thermal images taken by NASA on 9/16/01. They're archived here, on Jim Hoffman's site. Notice the temperatures recorded go as high as 1377 degrees fahrenheit. Which is about half the temperature required to melt steel."
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." J. D. Salinger
Well I'm sure these truthers could care less if Pat goes around calling them moronic, but when we put the boot on the other foot ... hey Pat, what do you think of these FACTS, moron?
The images below represent surface temperatures, the 'optical depth' is at the most a few millimeters.(ACS919)
The debris pile at Ground Zero was always tremendously hot. Thermal measurements taken by helicopter each day showed underground temperatures ranging from 400ºF to more than 2,800ºF. asse.org, May issue 2002 cached copy
