Featured Experts and Eyewitnesses: Physicist Steven Jones, who says he found evidence of thermite, a bomb material, in the residue from Ground Zero; explosives expert Van Romero, who performed a test purported to show that liquid thermite can make steel girders burn hotter and faster; demolition expert Brent Blanchard, who says that no inspection for explosive materials was done at the scene; former Air Force pilot Jeff Dahlstrom, who is convinced that 9-11 was a "false flag" operation carried out to push the country into war; Mike Bellone, a recovery worker at Ground Zero who says that he saw airline flight recorders recovered at the scene; Dave Lindorff, a journalist, who says that the recorders were recovered, inspected and turned over to the FBI; Dale Leppard, a former head of the Airline Pilots Association who insists recorders are always found; and former FBI investigator Jack Cloonan, who disputes claims the recorders were found.
About the Show: Jesse Ventura and a team of expert investigators are on a mission to examine some of the most frightening and mysterious conspiracy allegations of our time. They examine available evidence as well as talking to experts and eyewitnesses to learn more about such topics as global warming, possible 9/11 cover-ups, secret government weapons and apocalyptic prophecies. "This is my personal journey," Ventura says, "to prove that there is more to these stories than you know about."
Pat Curley of the Screw Loose Change blog claims that 9/11 family members Donna Marsh O'Connor and Bob McIlvaine "have sold their credibility as 9-11 family members for the adulation of the Troofers." Are you prepared to tell that to the estimated 3,500 members of the largest 9/11 families group who believe 9/11 was an inside job to some extent?
Pat states, "Next up, Willie Rodriguez. Hilariously, Jesse claims Willie worked in WTC-2. Wow, way to fact check your stuff, guys. We get W-Rod's claim that he felt the explosion from below him. Never mind that his initial reports were that he heard a big rumble, remember?
As Debunking the Debunkers blog contributor ScootleRoyale has pointed out, "The release of the 9/11 Commission documents vindicated him from claims of debunkers that his story has changed over the years, but there is a simpler explanation for his story."
Next Pat seems confused about nano-thermite:
Then comes Steven Jones. This time his substance is "superthermite"; it's been nanothermite, thermite and thermate in the past. It's liquid and can be painted on the steel. So they show poor Van Romero painting superthermite on this beam. And we see that while the unpainted beam did not catch fire, the painted beam did seem to light up. But will it fail structurally?Super-thermite and nano-thermite are just two names for the same thing, and Pat should know this. His "debunking" buddy James B. posted an explanation of it from Steven Jones way back on May 10, 2008, "Jones: Superthermite, in the nano-composite sol gel form, can be painted on the steel columns and that then can be touched off with radio controlled signals."
Well, no kidding they skip right over that part. Apparently the idea that the steel caught on fire, however briefly, is enough to convince Jesse that this was how they did it. And nobody stops to mention that the claim is that they destroyed columns (vertical) not beams (horizontal), and that we haven't seen the beam actually destroyed in the video by any means.
Secondly, it has never "been thermite in the past," and the "paint" hypothesis is just one of many. Steven Jones thoroughly detailed this during a debate with Dr. Frank Greening in April-May, 2009 when he stated:
During the discussion, I briefly expressed my hypothesis that nanothermite served as an igniting agent, as in the 'super-thermite matches' described in our paper, to ignite more conventional explosives such as C4 or HMX, in the destruction of the WTC buildings.Pat does have a point concerning the thoroughness of the experiment. All I can say is welcome to our world!
Thermate (sulfur plus thermite and possibly the form thermate-TH-3) was ALSO in evidence and probably intended to weaken critical steel members (e.g., residue/ material flowing with orange glow from the So. Tower just minutes before its collapse and the sulfidation of WTC steel reported in the FEMA report but ignored by NIST). Thermite incendiary without sulfur is not in evidence at the WTC to date. But sulfur is NOT needed for the function of explosive nanothermite and would not be expected to appear in the red/gray chips....
The "working hypothesis" above is a scientific hypothesis, that is, subject to change as further research data emerge. It is also possible (for example) that explosive nanothermite (not an incendiary) could have been used in SHAPED CHARGES, to cut through steel explosively (a use suggested in Fig. 1 of Miziolek AW, 'Nanoenergetics: an emerging technology area of national importance.' Amptiac Spring 2002; 6(1): 43-48. Available from: http://www.p2pays.org/ref/34/33115.pdf .
Update on the experiment - 3/24/2010 : Reply: Jesse The BSer Ventura: I Called It!
His point about how the beams were destroyed vertically and not horizontally is a NIST talking point and has long since been debunked.
Update - 10/11/2010: Civil Engineer Jonathan Cole published a video of experiments he carried out proving that thermite variants can demolish vertically standing steel beams.
Bottom line is that until somebody on Pat's side puts up he really should invest in some nut bars.
The next thing worth mentioning is Pat's statement that, "We get the usual BS about how the steel was shipped out immediately." BS huh?
Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage. - N.Y. Daily News, 4/16/02Pat also states that "Jesse tries the 'no steel structure' argument."
Finally, Pat points out that the credibility of Mike Bellone is in question:
Mike Bellone is a discredited witness, but you'd never know that from the extensive face time he gets in this episode. Let's let the NY Daily News give it to us straight:But as the show points out Bellone is not alone:
FIRE MARSHALS ARRESTED a self-proclaimed 'honorary firefighter' for allegedly touring the country with pilfered FDNY gear to promote a 9/11 book, officials said yesterday.
Michael Bellone, 51, of Brooklyn, who volunteered at Ground Zero and later collaborated on a book about the experience, showed off the equipment during speeches to schoolchildren, authorities said.
After fielding complaints, FDNY investigators questioned Bellone and discovered that a breathing mask, air tank and other gear he was using had been missing from the department since October 2001, officials said.
But do we hear any of this during the breathless passages of smirk-terviewing that follow? No, Mike's a hero of 9-11, and so what he says must be true. Never mind that Bellone also claimed in his speeches to schoolchildren that he was an honorary FDNY member, never mind this:
"He was charged yesterday with grand larceny, criminal impersonation and possession of stolen property."
There are accounts contradicting the official account of the black boxes. Two men who worked in the cleanup operation at Ground Zero claim that they helped authorities find three of the four black boxes in October of 2001. One of the workers, New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi, has self-published a book with other Ground Zero workers in which he describes the recovery of the devices. 5 The book, Behind the Scenes: GROUND ZERO, A Collection of Personal Accounts, can be ordered through SummerOfTruth.org.This book, written by Gail Swanson, and published in 2003, includes accounts of firefighters Mike Bellone, Robert Barrat, and Nicholas DeMasi.
In December 2005, CounterPunch reported that an NTSB source contradicted the official account, "'Off the record, we had the boxes,' the source says. 'You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here.'" - Source: http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/blackboxes.html
To quote Mr. Curley one more time:
When one of the producers questions the value of the black boxes, an obviously scripted bit comes with the black British woman snapping about how it might explain how these lousy pilots could hit the buildings. Yawn, how many times do we have to go over the same points? The towers were 210 feet on a side, wider than an average runway.I can't say I disagree with his yawn about having to go over the same points. :) His statement of course in no way applies to clueless super-pilot Hani Hanjour. And the British woman makes points beyond the one singled out by Pat, but I think Paul Joseph Watson of PrisonPlanet.com summed it up best:
The motivation behind lying about the recovery of the black boxes on 9/11 is obvious – any aspect of the recordings of the onboard conversations between the pilots or the movements of their plane that didn’t coalesce with the official story would have destroyed the fairy tale that was being constructed around the attacks in the very minutes and hours after they started to unfold.Here is blog contributor Scootle Royale's take on the show. Also see this post on 9/11blogger.com for many great comments on the program.
Questions about how a handful of men with box cutters could have overpowered burly ex-military pilots and scores of passengers with apparent ease would not have gone unanswered.
Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura [Season 2 • HD]
Yes, Ventura has endorsed the theory that Directed Energy Weapons were used to demolish the buildings on 9/11 and the theory that the plane that hit the Pentagon actually flew over it while a bomb exploded, and no he doesn't always have all his facts as straight as we like around here. That said, he does promote a lot of good 9/11 and other info that is widely distributed to the masses. So rather than ignore him we opt to point these things out and hope people find our blog through searching for him and then are able to separate the wheat from the chaff. So, here is his entire latest book, 63 Documents The Government Doesn't Want You to Read, in audio format.
The full audio book of Jesse Ventura's American Conspiracies
Jesse Ventura: Make Politicians Wear NASCAR Suits